In this episode of the Wise Decision Maker Show, Dr. Gleb Tsipursky speaks to Simon Dudley, Head of Analyst Relations at Logitech, about the importance of IT, Facilities, and HR playing well together to support hybrid and remote workers.
Video: “ IT, Facilities, HR Need to Support Hybrid & Remote Workers Together: Simon Dudley of Logitech”
Podcast: “ IT, Facilities, HR Need to Support Hybrid & Remote Workers Together: Simon Dudley of Logitech”
Links Mentioned in Videocast and Podcast
- You can learn more about Logitech at www.logitech.com
- The book Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams: A Manual on Benchmarking to Best Practices for Competitive Advantage is available here.
- You are welcome to register for the free Wise Decision Maker Course
Gleb Tsipursky 0:01
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Wise Decision Maker show where we help you make the wisest and most profitable decisions. As always, my name is Dr. Gleb Tsipursky, the CEO of Disaster Avoidance Experts, the future work consultancy that sponsors the wise decision maker show. And today with me is Simon Dudley, the head of analyst relations at Logitech. And they just put out a report about how remote workers and hybrid workers are using tools, technology tools, and some of the challenges of their experience. So what would you say would be the changes in how workers got equipped from the beginning of a pandemic? To right now, based on what Logitech has been discovering the report and your own personal experience?
Simon Dudley 0:47
Sure, well, good afternoon, or good morning or good day, whichever it is to our audience first. So yeah, it’s been interesting, when the pandemic kicked off, you know, what, two and a half years or so ago now, basically, most of our clients tell us that they said to their users, grab whatever you can from the office, take it home, use it. And or like Robinson Crusoe really, or there was this sense of just going and buying whatever you can get your hands on from, from Amazon or anywhere online and use that. And it worked. Okay. But I think IT departments were rather overwhelmed by the number of different things, all their users when a bolt, and they were also overwhelmed by trying to support one of the OT Coki, Mark seven GTI, or whatever it is that all these users bolt, so it became a real mess. And one of the things that’s happened, and certainly our report talks about is this idea that IT departments sit there and basically wait for the phone to ring for someone to complain, on which point they go and try and fix that problem. They’re not generally they don’t have the time to be reactive to their users and explain to users what they should get. And my report seems to indicate that most users don’t even know what they could do to make their life better. But they do know what they’ve got today isn’t great. So we’re in this kind of weird situation, which I guess we’re going to talk about in more detail, but it’s a fascinating space to be in.
Gleb Tsipursky 2:23
Let me share your story. So I helped 21 organizations transition to hybrid remote work. I want to share with you a story about one organization, and you let me know what they did, right what they did wrong, what would you recommend that they do better, and how it compares to what other organizations did. So what we did there is we surveyed users on their needs. So they figured me out, kind of the future of work, and what they wanted for their home office first for the technology. And users wanted a lot of different things. And what we figured is that the IT department added the Information Sciences and students, so about 300 dishes, people research, AI and cybernetic Security Research Institute in the University of Southern California. So they did not have a huge well funded department, they had reasonable funding and they could not really support all the different things that people wanted. So they looked at it. And also they found that a number of people didn’t really know what they wanted. They just wanted a nice webcam or something like that. They didn’t know what the webcam was that they wanted. So what we did was we researched kind of some of the best webcams, and created a standardized set of couple of webcams, one or two kind of couple of audio devices, a lot of everything that various monitor arms, monitor arms, furniture, that’s going to be nice and ergonomic headphones, everything that you might want for your home office, kind of a standardized set. And we told them you ordered either this monitor or this monitor, order this, you know, headphones, so on. And so we gave them a website where they can order this, and then we shipped it to their home office. And then we had somebody come over if they needed to help set up the furniture, or if they needed to correct and arrange something to connect things. So they got all this kind of basic equipment and supplies they needed to actually manage their home office. And then because IT knew about the devices, they reviewed them, they got thorough knowledge of them, they knew they were all compatible, and that they could also support all of these devices and they can fix them and replace them easily if things weren’t Alright, what do you think of that approach?
Simon Dudley 4:37
When you said it’s funny, you just described it and you said, what did we get wrong? I would argue not very much, actually. And you were way ahead of most organizations. Most organizations we spoke to were scrambling, right. Their own IT departments weren’t in the office either. Most of these folks didn’t have a lot of experience with this technology. And so I think what you did was excellent. A couple of sorts of pointers, though, the first one would be that not all the requirements of all the users are either the same nor obvious. It’s very interesting. Our own report points out that many people find that, for example, the webcam in their laptop is a good example, they may think it’s perfectly acceptable. And remember, they don’t get to see themselves very much. It’s the far end that gets to benefit from your investment. But then they find out that it’s not even about the camera, necessarily, but it’s also about the camera angle, right? If I’m staring down, I’m at that age where having the camera beneath my chin, for example, is really flattering. It’s really flattering for most of us. But it’s really very not flattering when you’re kind of, you know, mid 50s, and put on a few pounds. So I think part of the problem with such an approach can be and I’m certainly not suggesting that you did, but that your users ask your users what they want. Well, our own report suggests that lots of users have no idea what they want. We talk, for example, give you an example. We talked about headsets, right? And people think, Oh, well, I’ll use Apple air pods. And they’re, because they’re great, right? Apple products make nice air pods. And they’re brilliant. By the way, they’re really excellent products. And obviously, they sell millions of them a year. But they’re not business design products. So as an example, and it was my dog who was perfect in his position a moment ago, my wife just came home, you probably heard him barking in the background. If I’d been wearing something like some of our headphones, it would have canceled out the sound of my dog, you wouldn’t have heard it. If you’d been wearing Apple earbuds, then you absolutely would have heard it because the noise canceling is one of those things that people go oh, yeah, I don’t hear that white noise. I’m on the plane or the bus or whatever. Yeah, but there’s two forms of noise canceling, there’s the cut out the sound that goes into your ears. But there’s also cut out the sound that goes from your microphones to the far end of the call. Let’s be realistic. How many people even know that thing? So it’s all very good for manufacturers. Like I say, we have noise canceling headphones, I could buy Bose headphones to do that. And by the way, their headphones are excellent at cutting out sound at the end. But they’re terrible at cutting out sound at the far end, because that’s not what they’re designed to do. And then there’s the other angle that I think a lot of people look at things like a laptop and go, Oh, I got a lovely laptop, I’ve got an apple, whatever it is, a MacBook in one pro, a beautiful device. But it’s really if you think about it, in many senses, it is a Swiss army knife, right? It does everything reasonably well. But if you actually had the proper tool, you probably use the proper tool rather than the Swiss Army knife. The Swiss Army Knife is almost your last result. And the other thing that we’ve been thinking about, and it’s a kind of an interesting angle is that things like a laptop, which is what most of us have when we’re working from home is really designed as a compute device, where increasingly we’re living in a world where actually your computer is less focused on being a compute device and more focused, particularly post pandemic or during the pandemic, as a communications device. weren’t particularly designed for that. They’re okay at it. But they don’t reduce the quality of experience of, you know, a high end webcam or high quality headphones. The speakers are designed to help you listen to music, rather than to do a video call on for example. So yeah, we’ve noticed lots of different changes. I do want to say for the record, though, I think you did a great job and way better than most.
Gleb Tsipursky 9:06
Okay, well, thank you. Yes, we encourage employees to make sure they do get the webcams and so on. Because yeah, it’s not intuitive to people that the ones who suffer from having poor webcams and microphones are the people at the other end. But I noticed from your report, that something like just over a third of companies provided their employees with webcams and well, external speakers and external microphones. And that was kind of shocking to me. Because if you think about collaboration, communication we’re talking about here right now. The experience of communicating and collaborating through the inbuilt laptop microphone and webcam is just terrible. From the number of things that you described, and just the lighting, people can’t hear you and again, you’re not the one who suffers. The people who suffer are the ones at the other end. So you surveyed about 1000 of them, leaders. And that was really confusing why that was the collaboration aspect of it was not really addressed. When I think about, let’s say companies trying to get their employees back to the office, you know, they say collaboration, collaboration, collaboration, that’s what we want. But you’re not providing them with such simple basic things, I mean, it’s going to cost them under even the highest end, high end webcam would be to $2 or $300, the microphone is going to be maybe 100. And that’s going to solve a lot of your collaboration problems instead of trying to force your employees back into the office, or at least ameliorate them, and kind of give you a much better experience of collaborating remotely, which even if your employees are going to be coming to the office two or three days a week, they’re still going to be working remotely and collaborating with others remotely two or three days a week. So what’s the disconnect, from your experience with IT leaders and providing these tools for effective collaboration?
Simon Dudley 11:05
I think that’s a very interesting question. And we’re frankly, still grappling with what the ramifications of this are. But I think our initial thought is this. And by the way, for your viewers who are watching this, please do not take offense at what I’m about to say. But a lot of IT departments honestly go to work to do what they can to support pain problems, right? I’ve said it when doing keynotes before, there’s this concept of the IT department goes to work to not get fired. That gets me in trouble sometimes. But the reality is, it’s true. Because how many of us at the end of the day work think crikey, you know, my phone works to my laptop works. And everything worked well, I better ring the IT department and sink them. Right? No one, no one does that. Even the CIO doesn’t ring up his own team to thank them for their top for making it all work. So the only time the phone rings is when there’s a problem. So all these users are having this very suboptimal experience, you know, with poor quality webcams, which are as cheap as possible in their laptops. And why are they that because the manufacturers of these webcams in laptops aren’t thinking about a really good quality experience. So thinking about is it good enough? It’s back to our Swiss Army Knife experience. You never use that device to get whatever small boys out of horses hooves that you get in a Swiss army knife, you always use the real tool, if it’s available, you only use the specialists on occasions. So where we got to is this position where IT departments are going? Well, the phone isn’t ringing, therefore, I assume everything’s fine. And the users are like, well, I assume this is the best that’s available. I mean, they’ve given me a laptop. I’ve got all the things, how can I say to the IT department, I want better when they don’t even know better exists?
Gleb Tsipursky 13:06
I see. Okay, that’s a really interesting incentive question where the IT department doesn’t have an incentive to kind of make trouble and say, well, there are these better options. And then people will start demanding it. And then they don’t have the budget to do so. And people that are employees just don’t know that there are better options. They’re thinking, Well, I got this, and this is what I’ll use, instead of trying to figure out is this really a good way of actually accomplishing the goals that I’m trying to do. And the ones who suffer are the end users who suffer are the employees of the company, and their customers and their prospects. Because if you’re doing sales, remote sales, that is a pretty bad experience, if you, if the people at the other end, can’t really see very well, or hear very well and are not sold very well. If the customers are not well supported. So external stakeholders are not well supported, again, due to poor communication, and internal stakeholders are not collaborating together effectively. And so the end result is that it’s really bad for the leadership. But no one is really motivated to address this issue is what you’re saying. So that’s what you’re finding? I hear you correctly.
Simon Dudley 14:19
Yes, yes. I do want to defend it just momentarily. Here. It’s more than that. It’s not so much that they are like, Well, let’s not poke that bear that looks like a big problem. If we go and ask people and don’t know how to ask people. And I think one of the things we’ve there’s a lot of talk, not part of this survey, perhaps but parts of other things. We’ve seen that folks who are working from home aren’t perceived to be as huge a professional, right as those who come into the office. But in the old days when I used to go to an office, I would wear a suit. And why would I wear a suit? Well, I wore a suit because it conveyed something about me. And our environment conveys something about ourselves in the modern environment. So if you’re sat on a couch and the cameras looking at your nose, and you can’t hear very well, when the dog barks, or the FedEx guy turns out whatever it is, that does not look good for you, it and I, you know, have an environment like I have this, this is this is a real environment, your office looks fantastic. And why do you do that? You do that because you want to look professional, you want to be respected. It’s the same reason you would wear a suit and tie. It isn’t about comfort. It isn’t about conveying something about yourself. And it’s very easy for us all to turn around and say, Oh, well, none of that matters. And it shouldn’t be about what’s in their head, not how they display it. But that’s also not the human condition. Is it? The person who dresses well, who wears reason? I mean, why don’t we all turn up to work in sweatpants, or in our pajamas? We don’t because he doesn’t convey a professional experience. And I think there’s that thing that people forget about, when they’re on video, you want to look good, because you want to convey that you want someone to have some respect for you before you even open your mouth. Because if they don’t respect you, before you open them in your mouth, anything you say will be ignored anyway.
Gleb Tsipursky 16:29
Yeah, I think from the report, I recall that over 60% of the people are not happy with how they look on video. But I think they don’t think the issue is a webcam, they think that oh, it’s kind of the environment in which I am, instead of thinking, maybe I can get better lighting, maybe I can get a better webcam. And I can have a more professional appearance and convey and make a better impact on others, right, which is really, really important, as you’re pointing out. Now I want to talk about the productivity angle. So you found that some workers are talking about communication, collaboration, but there’s also productivity. So for example, a lot of workers are not don’t have the technology to slash furniture, to have an ergonomic environment and to have a well productive environment. And when you’re thinking about people who are coming into the office, right, almost no one is coming into the office, let’s be honest, five days a week. And it’s going to be two, three days a week if they’re coming into the office. So you’re still having about half of your work done. In the home office, you’re communicating, collaborating somewhat, but you’re definitely doing your deep work, your individual work in the home office. So productivity is incredibly important. And that having good ergonomics, technology, furniture, and so on, is a serious issue. And that’s why with the clients that I work with, we make ergonomics a high priority to make people well comfortable, because productivity is incredibly important. So tell me a little bit more about why that’s not such a priority from the perspective of IT departments that you’ve surveyed?
Simon Dudley 18:05
Well, that’s an interesting question. So I don’t think that most IT departments think about it. Things like good ergonomics, good, good desk, chair relationships, good lighting and environment, those sorts of things. Those have in an office environment typically been run by facilities and HR. IT will then provide the computer that will go on the desk, that they don’t set up the lighting, the plants, the air quality, the chairs that you sit in. IT does not have a point of view on things like do you have? Do you have a nice Herman Miller chair or not? That’s not their problem. And so they don’t even think about it? Do you have a keyboard? Yes. Right. Well, I have the keyboard on my laptop. But of course, by its nature, it’s a tiny keyboard, because it has to fit on my laptop. And if you’re using it for a couple of hours a week on an airplane, or, you know, in a coffee shop, it’s fine. When you’re using your entire day, then over looking at a 13 inch display with a cramped little keyboard, and you’re using the trackpad on your computer that actually has not only does it make people less productive, but actually it’s going to have some very important long term healthcare issues for lots of people, the number of RSI, back problems, eye strain issues that users are beginning to exhibit is going to become a real problem. And not only is that bad for the productivity of those users, but it’s also extremely bad for the company. When lots and lots of people started coming off sick with things like backache and eye strain and RSI and all those things.
Gleb Tsipursky 19:55
That’s a serious issue. And since I saw from the report that it’s not simply the furniture For and potted plants, less than two, about two fifths of the companies provided an external docking port. And you know, only about half provide external monitors, maybe something like two thirds, like two, three fifths provide a mouse. I mean, these are super duper basic things that are in the technology that aren’t the, the IT departments fear that aren’t being provided. I mean, for the clients that we work with, we provided things like monitor arms and support for, you know, webcams that you can have like a webcam stand, and so on. These are all ergonomic issues that are quite important. And so that’s, I would say, the IT department does have an important role to play that there currently seems like a number of IT departments aren’t playing. But you’re also pointing out that the facilities, it seems like the IT and facilities aren’t playing well together when they shouldn’t be. So there should be some kind of combination and collaboration between it and facilities, that is currently not happening.
Simon Dudley 21:01
Yeah, I would strongly agree with that. I would also point out that HR also has an angle in here as well, right? One of the things that all of those departments, particularly IT and facilities, have always really thought is that their jobs and to a greater or lesser extent at the front door of their own organization, are right. As soon as you’re outside of the front door of your organization, the IT department says oh, we’ve given you a laptop, so you can go work out of Starbucks, or if you have to be working from home for a day, you can do that. But what they’ve never been set up to do is set up people’s home offices. Now. Maybe senior execs will have someone from IT come and help them out. But the reality is that the vast majority of this, I’ll tell, gets on with it. And that’s not just because facilities don’t know how to do this. And not only because it’s people’s personal spaces, therefore, facilities, and it may not feel that they, they even have the right to come and do this. There’s also this sense of resources. One thing that I have not experienced all of the time, since the pandemic started, no one, not a single customer and I speak to hundreds every year, no one has said, Oh, well, we now realize I got all these workers from home. So we’re gonna have to support them all. So we’ve increased the size of our IT department by a factor of five. No one has said that not a single person. And we don’t expect them to either, right. So I think there’s an angle here where users don’t know that it can be done. Facilities don’t really understand that their role was moved beyond the front door of their organizations. And it doesn’t have more money and more resources, but does have distributed people and don’t even know that those people actually need help but don’t know that they need help. It’s a kind of a strange circle of lack of knowledge, I suppose.
Gleb Tsipursky 23:03
It sounds like a lot of misaligned incentives. And that’s really, and that’s kind of on the shoulders and the C suite. This is what I was talking about: the C suite is the one that in the end, is the one that needs to pull these things together when there was a misalignment of incentives between the IT department, which we bashed them some but they and they do deserve some bashing, but they certainly do not. They’re not responsible for the full scope of the problem, some facilities, some HR, and in order to get workers to be productive, to collaborate effectively, to communicate effectively, both to external stakeholders and doing sales and customer support and to internal stakeholders, communicating collaborating with other employees, there needs to be a lot of intervention from the top in order to support staff who, again, to coming into the office two or three days a week, that means that you’re still doing about half of your work outside the office. So what do you think is going to be the future in this area? What are you finding from the report from your own experience talking to your customers?
Simon Dudley 24:10
Well, so there’s a couple of angles here. I think the first one is now that we realized, you know, the report is brand new. I think this is to an extent a bit of a revelation to us as well. So I think what we realize is that a lot of clients just do not even understand this as a problem. And they don’t know what to do about it. Even if you were to look at a high end solution from us, let’s just you know, we’re not the only player in the market other players exist but Logitech is playing a major role. So device like the Logi doctor I’m using now so the Logi Doc and ergonomic keyboard and mouse rimasta, high quality webcam and you know a solution like that all up is gonna cost you about $1,000 If I told her if I told him well, yes, particularly when you turn around to an HR department and Say, how much does it cost you when your users are off your your workers are off sick with RSI issues or with eye strain or with migraines, or they leave your company because they just get burned out. I mean, burnout is a major problem for so many companies today.
Gleb Tsipursky 25:17
If I turn to sales from a sales department perspective, how much do you lose when you lose a customer? Because they’re not well supported? Or you lose a prospect because you’re not able to make the right impression, right?
Simon Dudley 25:29
Absolutely, absolutely. So if you turn around to HR and facilities and say it’s $1,000 a user, and we can, we’re not going to mitigate every problem, I can’t make people not sit on the end of their bed, to do all their work, for example, right? There are other elements of this. But a significant part of it can be mitigated with technology. If you turn around to those people and say it’s $1,000 a user, they would bite your arm off for it, because replacing people even even ignoring the human factors, but just simply having people who can no longer work for you or a burn out for you and leave and go and join another company, replacing them costs so much more money than actually making these people more productive.
Gleb Tsipursky 26:15
It’s about a year salary,
Simon Dudley 26:20
I was able to get just a quarter of a year’s salary.
Gleb Tsipursky 26:22
Now that’s the typical hiring, to have a search to hire someone to train them up to the same level as someone who left is about a year’s salary. That’s kind of the benchmark from an HR perspective.
Simon Dudley 26:35
Wow. I mean, I’m older than I am, I like to pretend I’m older than I look. But 25 years ago, Herman Miller came out with their chairs. I’m sitting in one now, the Aeron chair. And they were about $1,000. Each and millions of companies bought those products, because they made the backache problems for most of their users go away. And you could still buy one of those Aeron chairs for $1,000. And you could buy anything that looks similar, but wasn’t for like $80. And almost every corporation went and bought the good one, because they understood what it meant. And I think that our big challenge is to help the clients understand that actually, for a relatively small investment, they can have a transformational effect on their users. I think that’s a pretty interesting story.
Gleb Tsipursky 27:29
That is, I think one of the reasons that the clients I work with got a standardized package for our users, is because we made sure they’re all compatible, and supportable by it. So I think that’s really important. compatibility is obviously you know, if you have a Logo Doc and everything from Logitech, it will be all supported. I mean, I’m not saying you have to get from Logitech, you can go to another player in the company and get everything from them, right, with a player in the industry. But the idea is that you want it to be compatible, and you want it to be also well supported by it. So whatever your It specializes in, that’s what you want for your customers. I mean, that’s definitely something that is very helpful.
Simon Dudley 28:12
I would add to that and say one of the things that most of us now do is live in a series of different streaming technologies, right? So you know, we have a platform, whether it’s Microsoft Teams, or it’s zoom, or it’s Google or whatever. So I would recommend that users look and IT departments look for products that are certified with those brands. Does it mean the quality of the experience is better? Actually, sometimes, yes, but primary, and often, you can’t really tell the difference. But what you can do is when you ring up for support, and you ring up Microsoft, or you ring up zoom, or you ring up Google and they say what are you using, and you tell them and that device is certified, that’s gonna make your support problems 10 times easier than if you’re running the okey Kochi Mark seven GTI.
Gleb Tsipursky 29:03
Now, very true, you want it to be compatible, you want it to be easily one click, you know, especially if you’re in a hybrid meeting, you know, that’s a, that’s a lot of work to set up. Yes. Now. Is there anything else? We haven’t talked about anything else you wish to share about this report before we wrap up?
Simon Dudley 29:21
I think that the biggest amazing thing to me about this report was that it’s not about that technology doesn’t exist. And it’s not even about IT departments not being prepared to invest. It’s about IT departments looking at the world and saying, We have done our job. No one is complaining. And it is about users not knowing what is available. And I think that the third leg to the stall here is its facilities and the users understanding that they’re all in it together, and they need to work out and do some research to work out. But what actually matters? You know, if you turn around to most facilities managers, five years, three years ago, and you said, Where does your responsibility end? I think the vast majority would have said the front door of the building. And it isn’t that anymore. And I think that their involvement will make a real transformation to this.
Gleb Tsipursky 30:23
That makes a lot of sense. Where should listeners go to learn more about Logitech products? Where would you direct them?
Simon Dudley 30:32
Sure, well, obviously, we can give you a link. But the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. Just look for Simon Dudley, Logitech and logitech.com is probably the best place to start your journey to look at our business to business products, where we recently reorganized so that all of our business products are under one roof now internally, and so our and narrative is very much about the entire experience. And then, the last last bit, I suppose I will say is one thing that people don’t realize that Logitech is very big in is not just the personal experiences, but also for when you are dialing into those meeting rooms. We’re actually the largest provider of video solutions in meeting room environments as well as a personal one so if they’re looking at both ends of the same equation, we can help them with all of it.
Gleb Tsipursky 31:28
Excellent. Well, thank you very much, Simon. That was very helpful.
Simon Dudley 31:31
Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
Gleb Tsipursky 31:35
Alright everyone, and I hope you have enjoyed the conversation too. This has been another episode of the wise decision maker show where we help you make the wisest most profitable decisions. Please make sure to subscribe to the wise decision maker show on whichever, then you choose to listen to us into watches and make sure to leave a review to help other people discover the show and to help us improve the show. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode of the wise decision maker show. In the meantime, the wisest most profitable decisions to you my friends.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Bio: Dr. Gleb Tsipursky helps leaders use hybrid work to improve retention and productivity while cutting costs. He serves as the CEO of the boutique future-of-work consultancy Disaster Avoidance Experts, which helps organizations adopt a hybrid-first culture, instead of incrementally improving on the traditional office-centric culture. A best-selling author of 7 books, he is especially well-known for his global best-sellers Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters (Career Press, 2019) and The Blindspots Between Us: How to Overcome Unconscious Cognitive Bias and Build Better Relationships (New Harbinger, 2020). His newest book is Leading Hybrid and Remote Teams: A Manual on Benchmarking to Best Practices for Competitive Advantage (Intentional Insights, 2021). His writing was translated into Chinese, Korean, German, Russian, Polish, Spanish, French, and other languages. His cutting-edge thought leadership was featured in over 650 articles and 550 interviews in prominent venues. They include Harvard Business Review, Fortune, Inc. Magazine, Business Insider, Fast Company, Forbes, and elsewhere. His expertise comes from over 20 years of consulting, coaching, and speaking and training for mid-size and large organizations ranging from Aflac to Xerox. It also comes from his research background as a behavioral scientist. After spending 8 years getting a PhD and lecturing at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, he served for 7 years as a professor at the Ohio State University’s Decision Sciences Collaborative and History Department. A proud Ukrainian American, Dr. Gleb lives in Columbus, Ohio (Go Bucks!). In his free time, he makes sure to spend abundant quality time with his wife to avoid his personal life turning into a disaster. Contact him at Gleb[at]DisasterAvoidanceExperts[dot]com, follow him on LinkedIn @dr-gleb-tsipursky, Twitter @gleb_tsipursky, Instagram @dr_gleb_tsipursky, Facebook @DrGlebTsipursky, Medium @dr_gleb_tsipursky, YouTube, and RSS, and get a free copy of the Assessment on Dangerous Judgment Errors in the Workplace by signing up for the free Wise Decision Maker Course at https://disasteravoidanceexperts.com/newsletter/.